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Post by Maestro Triplet (Larx) on Jan 30, 2011 2:42:09 GMT -5
I don't know if I'm the only one here on these message boards, but there's been something I've been meaning to speak out on for a while.
Pokemon is overrated.
Yes, I said it.
For whatever reason I can't fathom, Pokemon gets more hype than any other video game series on this forum and it kinda bugs me a bit to see that.
I tried to get interested in these games having played a couple (Blue and Leaf Green), but I still pretty much mark out for Final Fantasy, the Tales Series, Zelda, Okami, Kirby, etc. Pokemon just doesn't cut it for me.
At first, when the anime came out, I watched it often in the 90s. It had a catchy theme, a certain level of cuteness with the pokemon, a couple memorable characters (Team Rocket), and it kept enough interest to want to see more.
However, this is where I start to see a whole slew of problems with the whole genre.
First of all, it's misleading. The premise and the whole slogan is "Gotta catch 'em all." right? Well, they released blue and red as a clever means to market to children because not all species are available through both games, and you have to link two gameboys to trade pokemon to get all 150 (151 if you count Mew). Well, that's good and all, but when you release more games with new types of pokemon to catch, the slogan becomes an endless quest to "catch 'em all", and you end up shelling out more money. This isn't any different from a drug addiction. You never can catch 'em all because the people who make these games WON'T LET YOU.
Secondly, it's redundant. From what I've seen of every version, you're essentially playing the same game. Catch pokemon, level up pokemon, fight gym leaders, get badges, find legendaries, solve a couple puzzles, fight rival, fight league champion, become league champion, and repeat again for almost every colour of the rainbow. They sort of do this to a fault with Zelda with finding heart pieces and using the items found in the dungeon to solve the dungeon in almost every single game imaginable, but the formulaic cookie-cutter method used in Pokemon can get very boring quickly and should not be worth the money for the extra merch. It's nothing more than a cash cow designed by the makers to continue earning money and continue making nearly the exact same game with a different colour or jewel as their title.
Thirdly, it's over-hyped and over-popular. Especially with the MPCs. There hasn't been a single Pokemon MPC that has been made that has less than 1000 views within the first 48 hours of it's release. I don't fault the composers for making these, they do a very good job of it, but seriously, I don't think people should rate these based on the popularity of the game they're associated with and rather the skill of the composer, which is partly why I'm a little bit miffed how Brian's medley got higher votes than the gradius/Earthbound medleys in the SotY poll.
I know there are a lot of pokemon fans on these boards, as evident by some of their avatars, not to mention Cat's near obsession with the genre, but I honestly couldn't keep quiet on this.
Before anyone jumps on this, I know Megaman is guilty of this same formula as well and we all love it too, but we'd just be comparing apples to oranges in that respect anyway.
I've said my bit.
Just another post on a forum I found. I actually wanted to see everyone else's opinions here. lol
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Post by tobinus on Jan 30, 2011 2:59:56 GMT -5
Hahaha the ending made my day lol xD
Yeah, Pokémon may be overrated, and I hope they'll change up things even more than they do in Black/White. I, too, have noticed the copy+paste formula, which is about the only thing I don't like about the franchise. All the excitement is based on the monsters and the area... so when the game is spoilt, there's not much left to enjoy.
I'm a Pokémon fan, but I'm not hardcore. I can't remember so many names, etc... I'm more relaxed about it. On the other hand, the only reason I have around 850 subscribers is because of Pokémon fans searching for Pokémon Black and White. My TCG videos aren't anywhere near the same viewcount.
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Post by Maestro Triplet (Larx) on Jan 30, 2011 3:14:13 GMT -5
tobinus Yeah, I agree with you. The games are selling because they're fun, though, and that's the only thing that matters. I also found this first point to be kind of ridiculous and unrelated to the game itself in a way. Out of all things... ALL THINGS to rant about in the game... you choose... a slogan... a slogan... That's dumb really... no one worries about a slogan in a game. They worry about the gameplay itself. Who cares about the slogan? There are A BUNCH of logical explanations behind the slogan, but no one cares about it. lol I actually forgot all about it until now. This one made sense, but it's actually quite weird because EVERY game is repetitive in their own kind of way. lol God of War, you kill soldiers/gods/deities in general to regain your power as a God. Is that not done in all of the games? Kingdom Hearts, do you not fight countless heartless to stop Organization XIII or some sort of villain from being "whole" again? Resident Evil, do you not kill countless zombies to rid the world of the infection or stop Wesker from his douche bag ways? lol etc. I hope you guys get what I'm dishing out, though. xD If a song is good, why not arrange it? I mean, view count doesn't really mean anything. Most people listen to the song to hear one of their favorite franchises remixed in a different way; Not just for the popularity. (That's my insight on it though, although either could happen. You can never rule out the impossible or overlook the possible. xD IF THAT MADE SENSE LOL) you guys wouldn't know about the Brian/Earthbound thing lol Soooo... I'll just state my opinions on the songs. xD While the Earthbound arrangement was a total success, It wasn't as exciting as Brian's RBY/GSC arrangements. Brian's arrangements brought a brand new feel to the songs. His transitions were clever, his instrumentation was superb and interesting, and his variation from the original themes were just... awesome. lol I'm not saying the Earthbound arrangement was bad, but compared to Brian's arrangement, that SHOULD HAVE been expected from the complete original and creative style he portrayed in it. Adding to what tobinus said: I agree. I'm not a headstrong fan of it either. I buy them because their fun and that is GameFreaks goal. Someone said B/W were overdid and don't seem like Pokemon anymore. Well, if they don't... I honestly CONGRATULATE GameFreak and Creature Inc. for that. lol Variation is sometimes needed to keep a franchise alive. Pokemon really needed it because DPPt really slipped for me and I didn't enjoy it as much. Although, there really ARE some overrated gens in Pokemon... like GSC (Puts bash shield up). I didn't really like this gen that much. It was really kind of boring and I didn't get into it as much. HG/SS set the standard for awesomeness. lol They added sooo much new stuff into the game, it's actually one of my favorite Pkmn games. xD But nothing will change my love for RSE... that's one underrated series right there... lol Anyways, I agree with Tobinus, but this guy's rant... it was just odd. lol He didn't really take into account that HALF OF THE STUFF HE SAID... applies to almost ever game series out there. :/ Then again... that's just me lol
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Post by WherewolfTherewolf on Jan 30, 2011 10:50:02 GMT -5
Yes, pokemon is VERY overated
Gamefreak is very, very good at advertising their product - and with a full on media barrage with toys, cards, shows and video games at a young age the company successfully brainwashes kids into buying their stuff. I, like probably pretty much everyone else here, at one point watched the show, collected the cards and simultaneously played the video games - they're pretty good at milking you for money.
Now I'm not saying the games aren't good, they are - and you should feel no problem buying them even when you're not like 12, because enjoying a good game is nothing wrong. But is it the best game ever? No, I can easily name many games I'd consider better. But as you've said, the games are redundant and a bit formulaic in the way they're made.
As far as the series goes, I'd say it continued to get better until Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald, those were my favorite in the entire series and imo the best games in it. Then came Diamond and Pearl, well they're not terrible games, but they seemed to lack something, something that the other games had that was awesome - sure, the game was still good but something about the series seemed to die there.
As far as one thing though is the many spinoff games, most of them not worth buying - these are definitely way overrated in my opinion, as much as people like the mystery dungeon series, I really don't think it would've had success if it didn't have the Pokemon label on it. Remember Trozei? I can suggest many better puzzle games then that, take Meteos (awesome DS falling block puzzle game, if you like that sort of thing I'd definitely suggest buying it). What about Ranger? A game about drawing circles. It seems gamefreak is bit lax when it comes to letting people use their content to sell their own games, and that's a place I've lost some respect for them.
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Post by TheGuitahHeroe on Jan 30, 2011 11:13:01 GMT -5
Honestly, I also agree with this guy. Pokemon IS overrated. Red, Blue and Yellow were such hits because, until that time, a game as large and as complex as those had never come out on the Gameboy before. RBY was MASSIVE compared to all other GB games out there. Now I haven't done much research, but I'd have to say that this is probably where the games got their popularity from. And then of course, years later, GSC comes out, which blows RBY out of the water in terms of graphics, music, gameplay, and, not to mention, the map is DOUBLE the size of that of RBY. But other than that, I really can't see why people like the games that much. Maybe it's the storylines that push them further? Probably. But nonetheless when I play Pokemon (any of them), I find myself having to spend a great amount of time training my pokemon by going out and beating a bunch of wild pokemon with one hit. Yeah, it gets boring after a while. Honestly, since the release of D/P/Pl, I've lost interest in the series almost altogether. (Except for its music, of course ) I much prefer playing Zelda, Megaman, SSBB, hell, even Wii Sports. (I like Wii Sports. Got a problem? )
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Post by tobinus on Jan 30, 2011 13:01:04 GMT -5
As far as one thing though is the many spinoff games, most of them not worth buying - these are definitely way overrated in my opinion, as much as people like the mystery dungeon series, I really don't think it would've had success if it didn't have the Pokemon label on it. Remember Trozei? I can suggest many better puzzle games then that, take Meteos (awesome DS falling block puzzle game, if you like that sort of thing I'd definitely suggest buying it). What about Ranger? A game about drawing circles. It seems gamefreak is bit lax when it comes to letting people use their content to sell their own games, and that's a place I've lost some respect for them. OMG! Another person who have heard about Meteos!? I LOVE that game! .....uhm, yeah. The games are fun enough, but they could do a lot better. They are holding themselves back. I wonder why. Is it just laziness? Or is there some sort of hidden agenda? I agree to most people here.
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Post by WherewolfTherewolf on Jan 30, 2011 13:09:38 GMT -5
As far as one thing though is the many spinoff games, most of them not worth buying - these are definitely way overrated in my opinion, as much as people like the mystery dungeon series, I really don't think it would've had success if it didn't have the Pokemon label on it. Remember Trozei? I can suggest many better puzzle games then that, take Meteos (awesome DS falling block puzzle game, if you like that sort of thing I'd definitely suggest buying it). What about Ranger? A game about drawing circles. It seems gamefreak is bit lax when it comes to letting people use their content to sell their own games, and that's a place I've lost some respect for them. OMG! Another person who have heard about Meteos!? I LOVE that game! .....uhm, yeah. The games are fun enough, but they could do a lot better. They are holding themselves back. I wonder why. Is it just laziness? Or is there some sort of hidden agenda? I agree to most people here. Meteos = such an under appreciated game As far as the spinoff games go, it's that they're being handed to game studios that don't know what they're doing - like how Mystery Dungeon is handled by Chunsoft, and look at their resume: "Game Boy * Mysterious Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer GB [edit] Game Boy Advance * Kamaitachi no Yoru Advance * Monster Battle Soccer * Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team * Shiren Monsters: Netsal * Torneko's Great Adventure 2 * Torneko's Great Adventure 3 [edit] Game Boy Color * Mysterious Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer GB2 [edit] GameCube * Homeland [edit] Nintendo 64 * Mysterious Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer 2 [edit] Nintendo Entertainment System * Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken * Dragon Warrior * Dragon Warrior II * Dragon Warrior III * Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen [edit] Nintendo DS * Love Zombie * Fushigino Dungeon: Furai no Shiren DS 2: Sabaku no Majou * 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors * Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer * Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team * Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness * Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky [edit] Wii * Shiren the Wanderer * Imabikisō * 428: Fūsa Sareta Shibuya de [edit] PlayStation * Sound Novel Evolution 1 - Otogirisou Sosei-Hen * Sound Novel Evolution 2 - Kamaitachi No Yoru -- Tokubetsu-Hen * Sound Novel Evolution 3: Machi: Unmei no Kousaten * Dragon Quest Characters: Torneko's Great Adventure 2 - Mystery Dungeon (Torneko: The Last Hope) [edit] PlayStation 2 * 3 Nen B Gumi Kinpachi Sensei: Densetsu no Kyoudan ni Tate! * 3 Nen B Gumi Kinpachi Sensei: Densetsu no Kyoudan ni Tate! Perfect Edition * Kamaitachi no Yoru 2: Kangokushima no Warabe Uta * Kamaitachi no Yoru×3: Mikadukijima Jiken no Shinsou * Dragon Quest Characters: Torneko's Great Adventure 3: Mystery Dungeon [edit] PlayStation 3 * Imabikisō * 428: Fūsa Sareta Shibuya de [edit] PlayStation Portable * Kamaitachi no Yoru 2: Kangokushima no Warabe Uta * Kamaitachi no Yoru×3: Mikadukijima Jiken no Shinsou * Machi: Unmei no Kousaten * 428: Fūsa Sareta Shibuya de [edit] Xbox 360 * Entaku no Seito: Students of Round [edit] Sega Saturn * Sound Novel Machi [edit] Super NES * Dragon Warrior I & II * Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride * Otogirisō * Kamaitachi no Yoru * Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer * Torneko's Great Adventure: Mysterious Dungeon [edit] iOS * Kowa-Oto " (from wikipedia) Not only notice that barely any of the games are noticeable (aside from Dragon Quest and Mystery Dungeon), and notice how many follow the "mysterious dungeon" formula. So I'm guessing Mystery Dungeon is just putting pokemon in the formula they've used for many other titles.
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Post by almightyarceus on Jan 30, 2011 14:59:07 GMT -5
Not big on the game scene here. I myself was raised without video games until I was about 12. But really, the only things I go for because of this are Nintendo games. Why? Well, here are some reasons: 1.) Nintendo markets their products much more efficiently and effectively than any other games on the market. Just think about it; of the commercials you see on TV for video games (unless your on a gaming channel such as G4) I'd say a good 75% are for nintendo games or games intended for Nintendo consoles (think Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, etc.) Now, many video game companies are trying to get as good as Nintendo with advertising, such as the PS consoles who are as of now lagging (though I can't say for long with the release of the PSP2.) Then there's XBox, which targets the more mature gamers with classic games such as COD and Halo. These guys have a solid fan base just like nintendo, except the gamers on XBox are usually more intense. They may have a more limited age range (which they are trying to eliminate with the addition of Kinect--their attempt to one up the wii--to draw in more of a family audience) BUT they have a solid fanbase of the older people etc. 24% of commercials (regularly--when no new COD or halo game is announced) are XBox. (1% being PS.) Nintendo appeals to the entire age spectrum, advertising mainly to bring in new people to their system and to keep the old families who enjoy the classics happy. This is where the game formula for things like pokemon and Mario Galaxy come in. There is a lot of healthy variance in the games, which is good and keeps the old customers buying, and it brings in new customers intrigued by the phenomenon.
2.) (lol that took a while) Not being raised with video games, along with a disconnect from the older sort of games due to younger siblings and parental control (plus only owning Nintendo systems) I have always stuck with Nintendo games. They are a lot more welcoming to me than other console games. I never liked the first person shooter games that it seems all guys are extremely caught up in. They just never appealed to me. Perhaps it was the way I was raised--I will never know.
To me, Pokemon is a classic. It was like the first "big kid" cartoon I watched; when I was just a kindergardener I remember watching the first episode and absolutely falling in love with the series. I was maniacal when it came to pokemon paraphernalia. I got the shirts, the play sets, the TV show, the video cassettes; I went to the movies typically the day of release to watch them, etc. The only thing I never got were the video games. I really really wanted to play them--all my friends had them--but my parents would not let me get a video game console; they thought it would be a waste of time. Finally, after years of waiting, I was aloud to buy a video game console. I bought the DS. Got the games, from ruby/sapphire/emerald all the way up to platinum. I even got the spin off games, like ranger and PMD. It was such a big payoff to me. And I loved the way the games went. The story line, the mystical creatures, the setting, the evil syndicates, etc. But perhaps the most influential of all for me was the music. Yes, I would say so.
The primary reason I stick so closely with the series is for the amazing music that plays. I remember when I fell in love with it; the champion battle in Sapphire. Having never played a pokemon game before, I went through the elite four expecting that once I got past Drake, I would win. After all, it's the Elite Four, right? Oh, how naive I was. It took me FOREVER to beat drake; I had to resave and battle him a ton of times before I won. When I did, and I saw him say "Go! Onwards! The Champion is waiting!" I knew I was screwed. I walked up the stairs, saw who it was, and the music played. In my head, I was like DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. This music is BADASS. It was the most intense moment for me right there; the music made it for me. From then on, I was fascinated with the music. I memorized every melody in the game. And that's how its gone. And that's how it's going. For me, pokemon is a musical adventure.
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Post by Maestro Triplet (Larx) on Jan 30, 2011 15:32:00 GMT -5
tobinusWell, Pokémon IS a children`s game, so they can`t go all out and make it as difficult/challenging as Resident Evil, Call of Duty, etc. But it is overrated. I just don`t agree with the points this guy was making to prove it is
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Post by tobinus on Jan 30, 2011 16:42:31 GMT -5
@larx: I didn't mean it that way lol. I thought more about........ uhmm.. the little variation and exclusion of battle frontier etc. But yeah, the music. I think Pokémon is what made me interested in video games and video game music. I remember listening to the über-epic title screen of RSE right before school began six years ago ;D I love it, and the creators are genius - even though some decisions are made because of money
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Post by JillSandwich93 on Jan 30, 2011 22:26:24 GMT -5
Well, Pokémon IS a children`s game, so they can`t go all out and make it as difficult/challenging as Resident Evil, Call of Duty, etc. Says the person who needed help on Lt. Surge's switch puzzle. Also, Whitney's Miltank from Hell. I consider that as one of the most traumatizing experiences in video games ever. ;-; Anyways, my stance on this is, yes, Pokemon is overrated. But does that automatically mean it's a terrible game that's not fun to play? I doubt that. The way I look at "overrated vs. underrated" discussions is that it shouldn't even matter. Why should it matter if you love a video game series that happens to be really popular? I mean, if you hate a series just BECAUSE it's really popular...well, that's just dumb. Plus, opinions are just opinions (except on the internet, when everyone tries to prove their opinions as fact. jk ). I also am one to realize how every game is basically the same storyline - get your starter Pokemon from a Professor, get 8 gym badges, somehow defeat a whole crime syndicate by yourself, defeat the Elite 4, become the Champion. But does this mean that it's a stale series? Let's look at everything that's been added SINCE RBY: a real-time clock, breeding/genders, egg moves, conditional/combo moves, the Special Defense/Attack split, rebattling trainers for EXP and money, two new Pokemon types (after all, Dark was basically made as a check-and-balance response to how godly Psychic was), happiness/friendship, berries/apricorns, Mystery Gift, allowing Pokemon to hold items, different types of bicycles, the option to play as a boy or girl, the Battle Tower (and eventually the whole Frontier), EVs, natures, secret bases, Pokemon Contests, Diving (that's an HM that's really too cool to not mention...not as a move, but as a atmospheric out-of-battle thing) music changes based on time of day, the Poketch, the Underground, physical/special attack split based on moves rather than type, seasons, and now freakin' music changes IN battle Now, to me, this shows how much Pokemon has changed across more than a decade. The actual battle system hasn't changed much, but the way I look at it, why fix something that's not broken (besides Psychic in Gen. I)? ...Anyway, that's how I feel, so...yeah. :x tl;dr: Pokemon's overrated, but that shouldn't stop you from playing the games (or anything that's considered "overrated", for that matter).
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Post by Maestro Triplet (Larx) on Jan 30, 2011 22:32:39 GMT -5
If you think about it though... it's not that hard of a puzzle. lol I just never take the time to figure these things out. I usually just keep clicking switches until I get it and that usually takes about 3 minutes. lol I just wanted to know if there was actually something behind the puzzle lol But it is a pretty "tough" challenge for a children's game. But I'm not good at puzzle anyhow ;~; Miltank? That Pokemon was breeze for me! xD
Also, Jill, you basically summed it up the best. lol By the way, why was the thread deleted on MPH?
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Post by JillSandwich93 on Jan 30, 2011 22:38:55 GMT -5
If you think about it though... it's not that hard of a puzzle. lol I just never take the time to figure these things out. I usually just keep clicking switches until I get it and that usually takes about 3 minutes. lol I just wanted to know if there was actually something behind the puzzle lol But it is a pretty "tough" challenge for a children's game. But I'm not good at puzzle anyhow ;~; Miltank? That Pokemon was breeze for me! xD Also, Jill, you basically summed it up the best. lol By the way, why was the thread deleted on MPH? Wha- no one could possibly defeat her Rollout spamming Miltank the first time around! ;-; Also, if you would actually talk to someone in the gym, he'd basically give away the whole puzzle. It would just take some luck to figure it out. But yeah...I hate cheap puzzles like that. Or Ice Cave... >_> I don't know about the thread being deleted. It was probably because it was starting to become a battlefield, what with Brian being insulted at the comment that his Johto city medley was getting votes just because of it being from Pokemon. That's my guess, anyway.
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Post by TheGuitahHeroe on Jan 30, 2011 22:43:15 GMT -5
I lol'd
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Post by WherewolfTherewolf on Jan 30, 2011 22:43:37 GMT -5
"Also, Whitney's Miltank from Hell. I consider that as one of the most traumatizing experiences in video games ever. ;-;"
I remember when I was like 10 playing through it the first time, it'd take FOREVER for me to beat here - especially being normal there was no obvious method of taking it out quickly because you didn't have access to any fighting Pokemon/Rock or ground that could absorb those hits by then.
Hahah ice cave was funny, it took me FOREVER on my first playthrough to beat that. Come back 7 years later with Heart Gold, bam! 2 minutes
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